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24 September 2007 @ 07:35 pm
Hello, Headache.  


Today the interview with Judd Winick came out about the Wedding Special in Newsarama, and I think the whole world was surprised at what they heard.

NRAMA: Speaking of fun, and speaking of it coming to a screeching halt – that last scene. That was something that a lot of people were picking up on even before the issue. Was Ollie’s death in the mix from the start?

JW: Yeah – but actually, it was supposed to be Black Canary, but we changed our minds. How do you like them apples?


Well, Good Will Hunting, I can speak for all the fans when I say I'm shocked, shocked that DC would consider pulling a popular female character out of her series, having her team up with a guy, and then killing her off in order to give her man something to be angsty about and drive forward some plotline for him. Color us all surprised.

Now. How do I like them apples? Well. Better, honestly. But they're still pretty sucky apples. Do you know why? Because "Somebody Dies" is not a story. How do people keep not getting this? A story is a mystery to solve, a problem to overcome, a new character thrown into the mix. It's not a bunch of guys sitting around a room thinking, "Who can we kill?" It's not, "supervillains attack the wedding so someone can die at the end," it's, "here's a specific reason and way that supervillains attack the wedding." It's not, "people fight below their ability and act out of character, in order for someone to die," it's "here is the reason that people act out of character and can't fight as well as they usually can, and here's how we resolve it."

Granted, I've been sailing along just fine on the assumption that there's no way in hell that they will permanently kill off Ollie, and this interview, despite the 'dead' gives plenty of hints that Ollie will be back. But if he's not? And soon? Tell me why I should read this book.

The surprises in the plot? No. The solicits gave away every single storyline for the past year three months before the book came out. We all knew that Ollie became the mayor OYL, and fought Deathstroke. We all knew that Jason was coming to Star City targeting Mia (and god, how tedious was that, having to read two issues into the story before getting to that big reveal when we'd known about since it was blurbed in the solicit for the first book), and every single person knew, going in, that something godawful was going to happen to Ollie in the Wedding Issue.

The twist endings? Like I said, we all saw this twist ending coming. As for the other issues in the series: in every single conclusion for the last *year,* the villain beat up the good guys, set off an explosion, and got away. Seriously. Merlyn: shot Ollie through the heart, set off an explosion, got away. Red Hood: Kidnapped and beat up Mia, set off an explosion, got away. Deathstroke: Fought the entire Arrow gang until they were beaten, set off an explosion, got away. Fucking TWICE. Want to lay odds on what happens with the villains in the new series?

And finally, the writing. A lot of people criticize Judd Winick's writing. I actually really like how he writes Ollie. I like how Ollie is a fun, raunchy, stubborn, charismatic, borderline obnoxious guy. And now he's dead. And Winick's Dinah drives me up the wall. Connor I'm indifferent to. I would love if for a couple of issues Mia could not be the 'character who has HIV.'

Add into this the angst they feel over a death, and I have no reason to want to read this. I'm not flouncing off in an offended huff. I'm just depressed. I like comics, and it looks like I'm going to have one less comic to read. Crap.

 
 
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 03:12 am (UTC)
Can't hear you, dancing.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
When you mock my pain, the ghost of Susan B. Anthony goes over to your house and kicks your pets. Just so you know.
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 04:34 am (UTC)
Ding-dong, the archer's dead...
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC)
Well, I'm glad that after a long series of stupid, pointless deaths, you finally got one you wanted.

So, are you going to buy the new series?
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 04:57 am (UTC)
Well, I'm glad that after a long series of stupid, pointless deaths, you finally got one you wanted.

Yes, now DC can stop killing people. Except for Black Mask. He gets his nose driven up through his skull by Cass, who would be possessed by the spirit of Steph at the time. Like Deadman, only with Steph. Deadgirl.

So, are you going to buy the new series?

Considering Connor and Dinah will be its leads, that is an impressive level of gay on hand, but I think Winick is so liberal that he'll decide all lesbianism is exploitative and pandering to men, so it's gonna be all Connor slapping ass and Dinah not bantering with Barbara. Oh, and Mia will have AIDS.

The issue where Barbara comforts Dinah over Ollie's death, that I will buy. It's possible my feet will be doing a little jig while I read it, so I could get through one panel and then jump up, do some clapping, drink some Guinness... I'm not really that in touch with my Irish roots. I don't even hate the English, although they are after me Lucky Charms.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 05:08 am (UTC)
Except for Black Mask. He gets his nose driven up through his skull by Cass, who would be possessed by the spirit of Steph at the time. Like Deadman, only with Steph. Deadgirl.
Black Mask is dead. Fucking finally. Catwoman shot him just before OYL. Although, if that's how we get Steph back, I'll take it. Especially if she possesses Batman and makes him do the Battussi.
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 05:11 am (UTC)
I thought Black Mask came back in Man-Bat. (Sorry.)

Although, if that's how we get Steph back, I'll take it. Especially if she possesses Batman and makes him do the Battussi.

Now that there's no Dinah in BOP, we need a new, gayer Batbook. C'mon, Steph trying to redeem Cass through possession.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 05:15 am (UTC)
I think Man-Bat was set pre-OYL, a flashback, and he really is dead.

You always go for the lesbians.
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 05:37 am (UTC)
You always go for the lesbians.

You always go for the Batslash. Like a cat to catnip.
hanstrale on October 9th, 2008 03:40 pm (UTC)
Those who read my book DRAWING THE LINE will have read about the feud between that union and the IATSE local that lasted until .
shannon j.l.shanejayell on September 25th, 2007 03:16 am (UTC)
Bleh. I hate that Winick doesn't get Deathstroke. He's a PROFESSIONAL mercenary. He is NOT going to be randomly picking fights with superheroes for no reason. *sigh*
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 03:39 am (UTC)
I'm too pissed about Dinah, and Ollie, and in the upcoming series, probably Mia and Connor, too, to think about the villains.
shannon j.l.shanejayell on September 25th, 2007 03:43 am (UTC)
Well, I rather doubt Ollie is dead. He's survived worse....
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 03:48 am (UTC)
Yes. He's actually survived arrows through vital areas about three times before, but - What the hell? "Ooooh! I have a story idea! Somebody dies! Now let's pick who it is." What is that?
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 05:03 am (UTC)
He's actually survived arrows through vital areas about three times before, but -

But Dinah does not fuck around.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 05:09 am (UTC)
Stop stepping on my angst.
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 05:12 am (UTC)
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 25th, 2007 05:18 am (UTC)
If DC went for that, I'd be happier. "How about Ollie gets stabbed in the neck?" "Nah. How about he falls through a wall and his hat looks all funny?"
Anti-penetrite!teh_no on September 25th, 2007 05:36 am (UTC)
But all anyone would do is gab the whole night through.
Looking To The Starslooking2dastars on September 26th, 2007 12:56 pm (UTC)
As much as I loathe how Winick writes Ollie and Dinah... yes, thank you.

I've never been a big Deathstroke fan but even I know that Slade - written properly - is professional enough to put his grudges aside for paying gigs or "the right thing". He is not the kind of person to try busting into a superhero wedding just for the hell of it.

Sivani too is a mad scientist who is less a crime boss and more of a Doctor Frankenstein Chaotic Neutral, "I'll do anything in the pursuit of SCIENCE!" when written properly. I don't see him getting involved in any "let's mess with the heroes" plot unless Captain Marvel is involved.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 26th, 2007 09:12 pm (UTC)
The Slade contingent has spoken!

Sivani too is a mad scientist who is less a crime boss and more of a Doctor Frankenstein Chaotic Neutral, "I'll do anything in the pursuit of SCIENCE!" when written properly. I don't see him getting involved in any "let's mess with the heroes" plot unless Captain Marvel is involved.
I didn't know this character at all, so thanks for the info. It's good to know that no character was accurately represented.
katarik: Slade knows exactly who he is.katarik on September 26th, 2007 10:23 pm (UTC)
*cough cough*

Frankly, I'm still so horrified over Dinah the Slade bit has yet to really register. Even though everyone who's said "dude, that is NOT Slade" is ENTIRELY ACCURATE.

Judd Winick, so far as I can tell, quite likes Deathstroke. He just likes the wrong *bit* -- he's focused on the 'whee badass merc!' and not on the more minor aspects of Slade, such as, oh, HISTORY, and PERSONALITY.

But at least he bothers to treat Slade as though he's someone worth respecting, so Slade is still getting off more lightly than Dinah.

mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 27th, 2007 04:10 am (UTC)
I think we're getting a consensus here.
rubynye: Don't Come Cheap (Doubledgedtruth)rubynye on September 26th, 2007 01:41 pm (UTC)
*heartily agrees with both this and the OP*
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 26th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
I'm still not clear on who Slade is working for these days, or what he is heading up. Where does he get all the cash for his evil deeds if he hasn't been working for profit in years?
Looking To The Starslooking2dastars on September 26th, 2007 12:59 pm (UTC)
Take comfort in this: since Infinite Crisis EVERY SINGLE BOOK that DC restarted with a new #1 had a new writing/art team within a year.

Flash had it.

Wonder Woman had it.

And if Green Arrow/Black Canary is only half as bad as the Wedding Special and the solicits so far have indicated... there's going to be a new writer on GA/BC or an angry mob of Birds of Prey fans storming the DC Booth at the next Wizard World demanding Dan Dido's head on a spike.
mildredmilton: ultimate fightmildredmilton on September 26th, 2007 09:15 pm (UTC)
That actually is kind of comforting. Thank you. Like I said, I doubt that Ollie will stay dead, but - it still kind of sucks that instead of thinking of a plot this whole thing was organized around *some* character dying.
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